WEBVTT 00:00:05.046 --> 00:00:06.556 My name is Russ Rumberger. 00:00:06.556 --> 00:00:09.546 I'm a Professor of Education at the University of California, Santa Barbara. 00:00:09.976 --> 00:00:12.316 I direct the California Dropout Research Project, 00:00:12.316 --> 00:00:16.616 and I was a member of the IES panel that produced the Practice Guide on Dropout Prevention. 00:00:17.466 --> 00:00:22.916 What the research has found is that successful programs with dropouts will find people 00:00:22.916 --> 00:00:27.536 to play this role of advocate, and essentially the role of the advocate is to serve 00:00:27.536 --> 00:00:32.536 as a go-between the student and the school, but also between the parents and the school. 00:00:32.536 --> 00:00:37.716 So, they are kind of a middleperson that have the best interests of the child at heart, 00:00:38.026 --> 00:00:43.136 the interests of the parents at heart, and they advocate on behalf of those parents 00:00:43.166 --> 00:00:46.056 and the child in matters related to the school. 00:00:46.056 --> 00:00:49.356 And it could be related to course work, a particular teacher, 00:00:49.356 --> 00:00:53.936 getting along with peers, whatever the issue may be. 00:00:53.936 --> 00:00:58.356 And in fact, in some programs, the advocate would really serve 00:00:58.356 --> 00:01:00.576 in any way that benefits the child. 00:01:00.576 --> 00:01:04.046 So, in other words, it could be something unrelated to school in any direct way. 00:01:04.046 --> 00:01:06.776 They could be having problems with relationships; 00:01:06.776 --> 00:01:09.886 they're adolescents and they're having a problem with their girlfriend or boyfriend 00:01:09.886 --> 00:01:12.536 or some family member or whatever it would be. 00:01:12.646 --> 00:01:17.426 One of the frequent things that we find-or anyone finds if they've talked to students 00:01:17.426 --> 00:01:22.576 who are having difficulties in school, who are at risk of dropping out, is that they'll say, 00:01:22.576 --> 00:01:24.566 "There's nobody at school that cares about me. 00:01:24.566 --> 00:01:28.356 There's nobody at school that even paid attention that I wasn't coming." 00:01:28.566 --> 00:01:33.266 And so, the whole premise behind having an advocate is having someone who cares deeply 00:01:33.266 --> 00:01:35.716 and personally about the welfare of that child. 00:01:35.716 --> 00:01:39.586 So, most students, I think, are going to be very receptive to having somebody 00:01:39.586 --> 00:01:45.046 who shows an interest in them and has their best interests at heart. 00:01:45.046 --> 00:01:50.436 And now, not all students will maybe be quite as readily acceptable as others, 00:01:50.546 --> 00:01:55.406 but I think in my experience with it, most students are going to be very open to the idea 00:01:55.406 --> 00:01:57.686 of having somebody that genuinely cares about them. 00:01:58.326 --> 00:02:02.826 So, having said that, it takes certain kinds of people to play this role. 00:02:02.826 --> 00:02:09.336 And the more intense the needs are and more intense the relationship is going to be, I think, 00:02:09.376 --> 00:02:14.426 the more important it is to have a good relationship and establish that sense of trust. 00:02:14.906 --> 00:02:22.616 So, one of the qualities that we found in doing this program-and it was in the 1990s 00:02:22.616 --> 00:02:25.126 in Los Angeles with largely Latino kids. 00:02:25.486 --> 00:02:27.286 These kids, at least the ones that we dealt with, 00:02:27.286 --> 00:02:30.186 often had lots of issues and problems in their lives. 00:02:30.186 --> 00:02:35.476 And it would be, I think, a tendency amongst some adults to be rushed to judgment 00:02:35.726 --> 00:02:38.606 and maybe even try to change things about them. 00:02:38.606 --> 00:02:43.776 But to establish a good relationship with a child really requires having this trust, 00:02:43.816 --> 00:02:48.206 and the foundation of that trust in our experience was really this premise 00:02:48.206 --> 00:02:49.786 of accepting kids the way they are. 00:02:50.176 --> 00:02:55.426 And ultimately, of course, you want to improve their performance 00:02:55.426 --> 00:02:58.936 and maybe even make recommendations about how they can improve their behavior. 00:02:58.936 --> 00:03:03.806 So, I am not saying that they shouldn't change things that are problematic with them, 00:03:03.806 --> 00:03:06.086 for example, their social behavior with other peers. 00:03:06.086 --> 00:03:12.176 But underneath it all is this idea that they are being accepted for who they are. 00:03:12.316 --> 00:03:16.056 One of the things that's characteristic of a lot of schools, especially larger schools, 00:03:16.056 --> 00:03:20.756 is they have a lot of rules, and they feel that the rules are important 00:03:20.756 --> 00:03:23.786 to impose some order and the like. 00:03:23.856 --> 00:03:29.106 But one of the things-it gets back to the issue about individual needs of kids-that we found is 00:03:29.166 --> 00:03:34.676 that because kids' needs do vary a lot, then one of the effective things that schools can do 00:03:34.676 --> 00:03:37.786 to benefit the kids, especially certain kids, 00:03:38.076 --> 00:03:41.846 is to provide some flexibility in how they deal with them. 00:03:41.906 --> 00:03:43.806 And this can range from all kinds of things. 00:03:43.806 --> 00:03:49.946 But in the extreme case, for example, it was we had a child who just could not get to school 00:03:50.056 --> 00:03:54.416 at a certain time of the day because of a circumstance I won't go into. 00:03:54.416 --> 00:03:58.776 But the point was we felt that it was more important for them to be there for four periods 00:03:58.776 --> 00:04:01.396 out of five than to not be there at all. 00:04:01.476 --> 00:04:04.936 Some school systems would have mentor programs where they might have mentors come 00:04:04.936 --> 00:04:07.766 from the community or from businesses or whatever. 00:04:08.256 --> 00:04:11.306 Other advocate programs that are at least 00:04:11.306 --> 00:04:15.896 of the less-intensive type would use existing school people to serve as advocates. 00:04:15.896 --> 00:04:18.836 So, now, there's a tradeoff between the two approaches. 00:04:18.836 --> 00:04:24.126 The tradeoff is that the insiders, the inside people, will know the schools; 00:04:24.126 --> 00:04:26.406 they may have good relationships with their school colleagues. 00:04:26.546 --> 00:04:31.766 The good thing about outside people is they know-they can be more specially trained; 00:04:31.966 --> 00:04:34.826 they can engage in more intensive relationships. 00:04:35.376 --> 00:04:38.976 Potentially they could know more about outside services, for example, 00:04:38.976 --> 00:04:42.486 maybe because they've come from roles outside the school. 00:04:43.016 --> 00:04:46.196 But the disadvantage is they have less legitimacy within the school. 00:04:46.196 --> 00:04:49.066 So, what we found in our program, because they were outsiders, 00:04:49.566 --> 00:04:55.676 is they had diminished ability to influence other people because they weren't fellow teachers 00:04:55.676 --> 00:04:57.426 or even the principal or whatever. 00:04:57.426 --> 00:05:01.326 So, there were cases where they were less effective, 00:05:01.326 --> 00:05:05.976 or their advocacy was not successful because they were challenging the authority of the school.